Debate: YEC vs OEC

In January of 2020 I engaged Jeff Carlson, a Young Earth Creationist, in a brief public debate on facebook.com/oldearthcreationists/ a group which I moderate. Here is that raw transcript which reveals arguments and Scriptures for both sides. My commentary on the exchange is found at the end of this post.

* * *

Jeff Carlson: Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV) 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 20:11 King James Version (KJV) 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Old-Earth Creationists: In Hebrew the word yom, or day, is used like in English. It may refer to a 12 hour period of daylight, a 24 hour period, or an age, as in "back in my day".

Jeff Carlson: lol then why did God end each day with evening into the morning???? I didn't know an age or long period of time could have night & day lol!!!!

Jeff Carlson: And just to really top it all off so you old earth fools stop being fools and repent of your denial of God's Words, I'll end it with this verse straight from the mouth of God in the flesh Jesus Christ Himself who stated ever so clearly that adam and eve were created guess when...."IN "THE" BEGINNING! WHICH MATCHES THE 1ST WORDS OF GENESIS 1:1 :)

Matthew 19:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Jeff Carlson: NOPE! JESUS CHRIST WHO BECAME GOD IN THE FLESH SAID HE MADE ADAM & EVE IN "THE" BEGINNING!

Jeff Carlson: all you guys are doing is doing foolish speculating, instead of reading the bible the correct way which is "AS WRITTEN" also called literal exegesis. Your doing eisogesis putting your interpretation into the text to try to make it say something it does not say. Admit your wrong so you dont steer people away from the truth which is Jesus Christ!

Jeff Carlson: even the hebrew speaking jews who speak the language admit that yom means a literal 24 hour day from evening into the morning just as Genesis describes at the end of each day so there is no getting confused. God made reading His words that easy and simple any child or any dummy could understand it.

Old-Earth Creationists: Morning early in the age--evening late in the age. God's first book is called creation. Jesus is still Lord.

Jeff Carlson: lol well too bad your still so confused because how do you start at the end if an age going into the beginning???! Lol! Evening comes before morning! Go study the bible as is you foolish heretic!

Old-Earth Creationists: We are both believers although you don't believe it. "But I say love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." ~ Jesus

Jeff Carlson: God also said beware of false prophets, teachers, and professing Christians who change the word of God into a lie! And to expose them, which is what I am doing right here to you false professing bible believer! You don't even believe God at His own word on the first page!

Jeff Carlson: as far as I can tell and we all can: you don't believe God! You suppress the truth in your own unrighteousness of making up foolish insertions where they don't belong!!

Old-Earth Creationists: Again, God's first book was creation, and believers can read it with the scientific process.

Jeff Carlson: the problem is your so called "science" is the lense of using evolution and millions to billions of years to make the bible fit that absurd worldview of natural humanism! We can all see clearly here that your starting point & final authority is pseudo-Science, while my only authority is God i.e. scripture!

Jeff Carlson: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

This applies also to denying any of Gods words just like satan always does in the 3 ways he did to eve in the garden:

1) causes you to doubt God's Words

2) denies Gods Words

3 )says you can know better and becone your own god yourself to do what you wish. This exactly what your doing!

Old-Earth Creationists: Good thing God endorses your interpretation of Scripture.

Jeff Carlson: lol its not my interpretation! Its scripture fool! Read genesis 3 again

Jeff Carlson: i go off of Gods words! Not my own unlike you!

Jeff Carlson: you need to repent of your unbelief & denial of Gods words and stop leading others away from the truth.

Old-Earth Creationists: Matthew 5:22 KJV But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Jeff Carlson: yep read your bible carefully before using scripture that you do not understand yet lol: the verse says: "without a cause" and I have a legitimate cause to expose your denial of Gods words!

Old-Earth Creationists: interpretation.

Old-Earth Creationists: And I mention the verse because you called me a fool.

Jeff Carlson: lol no i simply stated the obvious in the verse that you keep neglecting just like all the other scriptures

Jeff Carlson: God calls those who deny His words or suppress the truth fools also! Lol wake up and repent!

Old-Earth Creationists: So Christ's blood does not cover my sins because I interpret "Day" to mean age in Genesis?

Jeff Carlson: did i say that?! No! You see once again your inserting YOUR INSERTIONS INTO OTHERS MOUTHS!

Old-Earth Creationists: I asked because I was not sure what you thought.

Jeff Carlson: But you could be believing in a false jesus like all false denominations do i.e. the one that suits your way, instead of denying yourself and submitting to the Holy Creator who formed you in your mothers womb! Thats the God of the bible whom I serve!

Old-Earth Creationists: See? That's why I asked, Brother.

Jeff Carlson: please just read Gods words as they say literally and do not lead others astray. That is the case i am trying to make clear to you so that they don't deny Gods words in unbelief or unsurity. Because doubting Him and His salvation promise can and most likely will lead them to hell.

Jeff Carlson: only real genuine faith which is Believing On Jesus saves, no other Jesus can save, except the Biblical Jesus. His words are found complete and preserved only in the KJV the last purified bible of the byzantine text line. All modern perversions are corrupted and misleading alexandrian texts from westcott & hort.

Old-Earth Creationists: The Bible is God's infinite wisdom in the finite container of human language. Don't get hung up on words--it's just the best we have.

Jeff Carlson: His words are perfect though just as the bible claims to be: The perfectly literal preserved words of God. To deny that fact leads one into absurdity and all kinds of wrong doctrine. Every choice is to trust God or man so whom do you believe?

Old-Earth Creationists: I trust God's finite creation, which glorifies the Creator, as well as the finite Bible.

Old-Earth Creationists: It's only 66 books.

Old-Earth Creationists: The Bible being true because it says so is circular reasoning though.

Old-Earth Creationists: Only believers would put stock in such a verse.

Old-Earth Creationists: BTW the "beginning" is simply the sixth day of creation. And to eternal Creator, it would be the beginning of sentient life on Earth.

Jeff Carlson: Old-Earth Creationists yea but circular reasoning isn't bad if its true and when it comes to God and the bible God doesn't need to give anyone evidrnce or proof of His existence. They already know HE exists just as GOD states in romans 1

Jeff Carlson: no! The beginning is the 3rd word in genesis 1:1 that is "THE" beginning

Jeff Carlson: the 6th day is the 6th day!

Jeff Carlson: see your most certainly proving to be an unbeliever because you sound exactly like one. You need to repent of your disbelief, because I don't think you have been born again.

Old-Earth Creationists: I have, but the Good Book says no man can know another's salvation.

Old-Earth Creationists: Not all believers are exactly alike. Consider John 10:16 KJV “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

* * *

My first point is Jeff’s repeated ad-hominim (Latin for to-the-man,) attacks. The Bible says they’ll know we are Christians by our love--not by our judgement and accusations.

When we say in the beginning, when exactly are we talking about? The infinite Creator has no beginning. When humans are created on day six cannot be the beginning because there’s five days before it. I suggest that in a Bible written for Humanity, beginning means all of time prior to humanity’s creation. If God ever created sentient life on another planet, they would have their own beginning length of time.

Old Earth Creationists do not make up a denomination; we are found in all denominations. We are not disbelievers leading people astray, but brothers and sisters in Christ who respect reason and what God says to us in his first book, creation--which glorifies the creator. He did not leave evidence such as the fossil record to trick the weak-minded. A solid definition of Old Earth Creationism may be found at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Earth_creationism